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Thread: Moving stops to BE

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Interesting points of view stated here....
    I believe proper stops and style of money management is something that can only be addressed by reviewing ones trades, and the way it progresses statistically. . Have you got a high win percentage, or high R, or quite low percent but a much higher R:R. All these are variables that decide how and what kind of money management is going to be suitable for ones trading system/style.

    By way of instance, if you have a high rate of hitting 20 pips per trade, and from that a reasonable amount ends up targeting 80-100 pips, then it seems sensible on trading together with your total alotted risk till 20 pips, and make profit. But on retraces or breakouts of the amount add incremental lots as long as position is going your way. Today its easier said than done, however I'v noticed that the more I can employ this, my losing trades are less in amount and my winning trades would be for more in sum, and thats due to not scaling out my position for runners. Since in systems in which you take partial profits, in the event of a loss, your loss is in complete lots, however your wins are in lots whose exposure is decreased it goes your way. I believe that the reverse of most trading systems/style would be helped by this.

    Today the exact amount that needs to be risked or when is a good time to include lots or on what retraces or breakouts is a good idea to include rankings, thats an issue of price action and individual trading style. . But for my trading style, it has helped the bottom line hugely.

  2. #32
    Personally I address my trading first and foremost from a risk management viewpoint - everything is subsequent to this standards.

    I too have been, am, and will probably be guilty of moving the stops into B/E too soon on transactions which then go to my target area - however I'd like to quote l whom I believe sums it up perfectly.

    I'd rather be from a trade and wishing I had been in than in a trade and wishing I was outside

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I would rather be out of a trade and wishing I was in than in a trade and wishing I was outside
    Excellent quote, coscorp.

    Inserted Code #91;#93;#91;size=2#93;Dopey: #91;/size#93;#91;size=2#93;Interesting points of view mentioned here. Notice I wrote in my statement. I think at some stage you should visit BE, just in case, but it is estimating that instant that's crucial. #91;/ / size#93;#91;/ / #93; #91;size=2#93;#91;#93;I brought this up since I am very good at not losing. But a summary of my trades reveals that I've been taken out too many times by being too quick to move my stop to BE and I've failed to re-enter from the first direction. #91;/ / #93;#91;/ / size#93; #91;size=2#93;#91;I#93;Many approaches are basically breakout systems and it is important to not forget that price enjoys to come back to test the level it just broke from. After another substantial level was reached or broken, then it is time to move to BE, but not before. #91;/ / I#93;#91;/size#93;
    Being unwilling to re-enter - especially at a worse price -after being stopped out at B/E is just another of my primary trading weaknesses.

    I've spent and continue to devote a lot of time trying to enter on pullbacks instead of breakouts - my personal Holy Grail is to enter at the three stage of a 123 setup. It can be done, but I don't yet do it consistently.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I would rather be out of a trade and wishing I had been in than in a trade and wishing I was outside
    Plogically, yes. That is human nature.

    Concerning bottom line, it depends on how one chooses to see possible versus actual. It might reasonably be argued that a missed 20 pip opportunity has the exact same effect on annual P/L as a trading loss of 20 pips. In both cases, P/L might have been 20 pips better, if I had....

    In the conclusion of the day, the best that any trader can do is choose the setups that his approach deems to be legitimate, and then manage risk as best as he knows how, come what may. IMHO that represents flawless execution, and is the only possible goal. Wishing whether he is in or out functions no concrete purpose.

    But each to his own way of thinking.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I would rather be from a trade and wishing I had been in than in a trade and wishing I had been out
    is dependent on what your being in has done for your account. As for me, I find those trades I'm out of and ought to be in a lot more haunting than staring at some negative amounts. This is a company of semi-gambling (or pure gambling based on egy) meant to make money. If you are too hasty to specify a transaction to BE, it then gets pulled away from you about a 1% swing for your day, then four days after it is up 4% from entrance, I will really be TICKED OFF. A lot madder than just taking a 1 - 1.5% reduction, which may have been where my initial stop was. This loss was something which I accepted before I made the trade, due to my belief and anticipation I had for the markets movement. The premise was be accurate, yet I was not there since I didn't want to lose. I would not play like this.

    Depending on how one trades, there's an perspective of what that person thinks should occur. 10 pips into the optimistic doesn't alter anythingday doesn't change a thing either. So, normally, I only allow my trades run and when I lose I lose...

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Being reluctant to reevaluate - particularly at a worse price -later being discontinued at B/E is just another of my primary trading weaknesses.
    I guess I am still in the beginning -- Unwilling to admit that, after correctly reading the overall direction, an spontaneous entry may dismiss that additional stretch of price where the turn really begins, and you stopped out until you arrive. Then I must sit there with my hands off of the keyboard while the price does my whole movement, because I am too worked up about it.
    It's not overmargining and was done several times. Self-appliion and calm upon the entry detail appear to be my next step.

    ' method (#12) is duly noted, if I could ever arrive. Daytrading'd be a lot easier.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    If you move your stops to BE too fast, you're trading to NOT LOSE, instead of trading to win.

    Just thought I'd pass that on.
    That is very good advice.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Depends on what your being in has done for the account. Personally, I find those transactions I am out of and should be in a lot more haunting than staring at some negative amounts. This is a business of semi-gambling (or pure gaming based on egy) supposed to earn money. If you're too hasty to specify a transaction to BE, then gets taken away from you on a 1% swing to your day, then four days later it's up 4 percent from entrance, I shall really be TICKED OFF. A lot madder than simply carrying a 1 - 1.5percent loss, which might have been where my initial stop was. That...
    To each his own - yet, I don't regard this business as betting, far from it. And it may be you have to work on your own and that portion of your trading plogy if you get so angry about the transaction that got away - however between day 1 and day 4 you might have reassessed the commerce and gotten in albeit sacrificing some of the initial profit. I've been there as well - we all have - and from where I stand there's far more harm than good to be had in these scenarios.

    Only my .02

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    however, I don't respect this company as gambling, far from it.
    Only a distinct interpretation of the word gaming here. There are poker players who, I'm sure, don't really bet when they sit down in the table. Yet, not to diverge and attempt to distinguish between who is and who isn't... I will only declare some are mad gaming, while some are only putting money on something that they don't quite know where it will end up in (gambling). Personally, starting a tiny retail or service shop is much more of a gamble than I would actually see trading to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    And it may be you must work on your own and that portion of your trading plogy should you get so upset about the trade that got off -
    Together with what little understanding you have, provided my article, this really is a nice point to be produced. The most plogically significant element in my trading is my aggressive nature doesn't influence my trading. So, I use words such as haunted and ticked off, these are feelings I do permit myself to own for not performing as well as I could have. I am not likely to be numb about this stuff. I take a loss with a shrug, if that, and go on. Non-winners, or simply tiny ones, I let a little fire. So long as people don't do anything dumb or let it influence their trading, I personally love to find emotions from traders. If I allow myself down I'm not going to let myself from escaping criticism. I would anticipate criticism from a superior if I did the same at a trading firm, me being the only one who oversees what I do, I have to be honest and tell it is... You made a mistake, dumb!

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    between day 1 and day 4 you could have reassessed the trade and gotten in sacrificing some of their original profit.
    Well, not with my discipline or method, no matter another fair point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    from where I stand there's much more damage than good to be needed in such scenarios.
    I will be honest, I did not really consider different approaches while making my reply. Nor did I wish to seem critical, if I did I apologize. This is where the difference comes in more than anticipated. Since figuring this stuff out, I've made all my important earnings on major reversals in the markets. I look for high reward with low risk. Mid'07, early'08, early'09. So... given the amount of time I wait, provided my expectations... exiting early, because of the subject (moving cease to BE) can get a bit

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    It's a small http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dichotomy, this cease business. The initial placement is obviously crucial and guides one's initial risk per trade in terms of lots traded.

    I'm slowly coming to the conclusion which time must become a factor in how one manages the transaction from the point of entry. I am starting to find that part of the art of successful trading isn't just having a clear cut way of entering a transaction, and also a set target for exit, but how you deal with these situations where price doesn't...
    Peter, I normally don't move my sls, but tried this strategy on Friday during NY session (only since it was Friday). Was stopped out at 30 pip profit. But had I kept my sl at or behind entry point, profit could have been 80 pips by the finish of the day (at closing price amount ). I don't regret these 50 pips since matters could have gone againt me at this time of uncertainty.

    The lesson I learned are:

    1. Let the price make an effort at next reisistance/support, in case it breaks it, then lock 75% - 80% of the profit (like one has entered following pa crossed within the support/reistance). Risking 20%-25% of profit for the following 50%-100% is a deal for me.

    2. If one needs to scale up, nothing like moving sl of previous position to BE or BE . It preseves margin to scale without exposing the account to risk greater than one chooses on first position.

    Earlier in London session, I had been taken out at 2 pip profit when pa reversed and hit my sl transferred to 2 pips. But at the exact same time gave me few additional pips once I entered at the new leadership of pa. Those additional pips came from the region between my last submission to stoploss. Had I not transferred my sl, which could have been a reduction.

    Conclusion: If one's goal is capital preservation or scaling up or scaling up without additional risk vulnerability, moving sl to BE or outside is good.

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