The Trading System That Never Works - Page 2
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Thread: The Trading System That Never Works

  1. #11
    No, not really. I really do understand the idea of reversing it, but don't think that's likely to do much. For starters, the shedding egy in reverse Isn't just likely to translate to $

  2. #12
    will never? Are you

    Can I reverse a statistically profitable system to a loser?

    Afterward I reverse this failure back into a winner, can't I? Before talk, you must think.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Reverse a losing system won't ever create a winning egy...

  3. #13
    You are not mad, your issue is that you believe you'invented' an genius idea which has been taken by virtually every experienced trader.

    Now, it is same hard to find a losing system on your mind as a winning egy. The main reason is straightforward: if you reverse this kind of losers, you are going to find a winner. Now will this world be so simple to work out like this???

    That the 99% system we see from crap system segment are random systems. They will not earn or lose, they simply useless junk. You see they are losers that are mainly as a result of spread/commission paid over time, or their advantage isn't sustainable/tradable. Placing them is a waste of time.

    Last, just pay your dues, don't be over-optimistic. The winner is different, but it is painful to arrive.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    You may think I am mad mentioning this, but imagine. If you discovered such a system, then all you'd need to do is the contrary to earn money all the time. Has this been considered?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    will never? Are you Can I reverse a statistically profitable system into a failure? Then I reverse this failure back into a winner, can not I? You truly must think before speak. quote
    Yes I'm sure and that has been tested and proved since many years...

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I have noticed here in the trading system forum, people are all looking for trading egies that work as close to 100% of the time as possible. That is a little bit of an exaggeration. Perhaps people are interested in as close to 60% as possible, or 60% or above. What's consistent between all trading egies I see here would be that folks are looking for one that works the most frequently, or frequently enough. However, what if we changed our mindset and decided to back and find test a system that never works? That loses you money 100% of their time? Does not that look like...
    This will never work plogy, since a system that loses constantly is easily equal to a system that always wins, even if you deny it consciously.

    In order for this to work, your brain would need to

    (a) loe a system that works close to 100%
    (b) just undo the signals.

    You probably are thinking that it might relieve the pain and stress you may feel searching for the impossible fantasy (that isnt impossible, but it appears to be).

    For that, I recommend reading trading in the zone.

    It introduces you to some new way of thinking:

    Every trader is just like a casino house: each has a border which overlooks consistently over time.
    What is an edge? An edge is when the likelihood of winning is higher than losing. In the trader's case, you decide what edge you would like based on how you perceive the market.
    However, just like a casino, you can not know 100% the outcome of each card hand. So that the distribution between losers and winners is arbitrary.
    Should you lose and you also feel pain, then that crushes your perception and narrows your attention, making it hard for you to perceive the market using all the knowledge you've learned. This makes you rationalize not taking a transaction, taking profit too soon, and other errors that dont let you objectively test your edge (objectively = no hassle!)

    So you require a way to not feel discomfort.
    You can achieve this by building up a belief system that includes 5 fundamental truths (and also the reason for these ), and 7 or so reasons why you're a persistent trader.

    5 fundamental truths
    1. Anything can happen.
    2. You do not need to know what is going to happen next in order to make money.
    3. There's a random distribution for any particular set of variables for a border between losers and winners.
    4. An edge isn't anything more than one outcome being more probable than another.
    5. Each moment in the market is exceptional

    Verifying these 5 fundamental truths can help you start using them logically and convincingly. Rather than being fearful, youll say something like okay, anything can happen and I need to know what will happen next in order to make money, so I will put this transaction because I'm a consistent trader. I havent recorded the 7 reasons for why some1 is a consistent trader, but you get the point!

    Of course, you need to think in these truths, but otherwise the emotion will still be generated (Feeeeearrrrr!)

    Thanks for reminding me, I forgot to get out my trading in the zone sheet to get todays trading

  6. #16
    Let me give you a hint as to what people are occasionally missing. . .you can and many do have egies that lose the good majority of the time. But they maintain their winners , when they win and they milk them for all their values with no anxiety.

  7. #17
    Funny how people think they have come up with some wonderful new notion, that nobody else has thought of, even in spite of the fact that markets have been in existence for decades, and thousands of the best analysts, mathematics and economic PhDs, IT specialists, etc etc have been working on solutions for all that time.

  8. #18
    I've seen some excellent points in this thread and a few really horrible points.

    I understand the desire to dismiss ideas put forth here because they have been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.

    I also understand the desire to think you're smarter than the other man, and that means you get a pleasure from pointing out how stupid the other man is.

    But let's dismiss with this simple explanations and delve deeper into the more complied. Below are a few of the things that are excellent.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Consider a system which buys at market price and immediately closes the place. Obviously, 100 percent of the time it would shed the spread on every trade. Obviously, if you reverse it so it only sells rather, it might still lose the spread on every trade
    This is a fantastic illuion of how taking a shedding system and turning it about generates another shedding system. Accordingly, in an effort to find a system which loses 100 percent of their time, we'd need to avoid developing a shedding system which loses due to spread independently. So such a system is out.

    But, does this point imply the idea is in itself wrong? Well, no. Not even close. It's an illuion of what not to do.

    #8203;
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    can I reverse a statistically profitable system into a loser?

    Then I reverse this loser into a winner, can't I?
    Exactly right. If one yells a consistently winning system, it must in theory become a consistently losing system. Reverse it back , and you're back to a consistent win. Accordingly, in practice, it might be possible to reverse engineer a system which starts with shedding.

    #8203;
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    That will never work plogy, because a system which loses always is easily equivalent to a system which always wins, even in the event that you deny it consciously.
    And that I believe gets to the crux of the issue. Except, the writer and that I disagree. I believe that the plogy of this is exactly what makes it achievable.

    It must, in theory, be easy to loe losing systems. Many, many, many losing systems. The trick is to seek out a slimming system which can be reversed into a winning system.

    A number of these respondents appear to believe that if it is not as straightforward as it sounds, then its impossible.

    But maybe there's deeper believing called for here, rather than the shallow thinking and mockery that tends to fill the internet as a result of the anonymity that comes behind a monitor screen.

    That is what we've discovered.

    1) Losing systems are easy and only reversing a shedding system doesn't produce a winning system.
    2) The plogy of shedding may be just like the plogy of winning. Here I disagree.
    3) It sounds easy, but clearly it wouldn't be.

  9. #19
    System 1: constantly use 1 pip stoploss and check for result after 1 to 2 hours. This system is best if a trade is executed 1 to ten minutes before N.F.P. this ought to work more than 99% of the time.
    System two: make a trade with 90-99% of account balance utilizing maximum leverage and make certain that you don't place t.p/s.l.. After approximately 24hrs check if a margin closeout is registered. Repeat until net account balance is negative or zero.
    System 3: buy your favourite alcoholic beverage. Make sure it's at least 30% alcohol. Have a couple of shots before you are feeling tipsy. Wear your head sweat ring, wear your cool colors and light up a cig. When you're certain that you feel as a tough person, go and start trading with a 1 minute chart. Use any platform you want and feel free to reverse your transactions should they move against you. Commerce and trade until you feel sober and then check your balance.
    System 4: make a E.A. that buys and sells every 5 minutes. No fancy technical stuff. Just let it buy and sell every 5 minutes.

    (disclaimer: all the above systems are not profitable)

    dear Baggi, I do not mean to make fun of you by creating this list. I only want you to understand that as children in school we had been programmed to feel that they are opposites in character. The truth is that this logic is both simplistic and robotic. E.g. if you think the reverse of black is white you are incorrect because both are colors and space is a third option since no can prove the colour of space. If the reverse of lady is male then is it both have more similar features compared to differences. If the reverse of positive is negative that they why can we have neutral or is it that neutral is a code word for yet undiscovered or inexplicable polarities etc. should you do the specific reverse of the above list you could continue to be unprofitable since if you believe deeply they will stay an alternative reverse.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    system 1: constantly use 1 pip stoploss and assess for result after 1 to 2 hours. This system is optimal if a trade is executed 1 to 10 minutes before N.F.P. this ought to work more than 99 percent of the time.
    With 1 pip SL couple of minutes before NFP... you surely get a 99% rate... of losing.

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