Indicators... The Beautiful Lie - Page 2
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Thread: Indicators... The Beautiful Lie

  1. #11
    It is said you have to choose the right tool for your job. That applies to the usage of indiors. Before you can even do that though - you have to understand what that job is. The tool can not tell you exactly what the occupation is. I'd say that, then, somebody who uses it correctly wouldn't even really need it. Just really more a matter of convenience than anything else. The exception is if you're using the exact indior as part of the EA.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Ragging on indiors is hip and trendy. It's the popular thing to do. But in the proper circumstance indiors can be very useful.
    I'm right there with you Rabid! I think MACD a (if not, the most) popular indior that many experenced trader's tend to despise on. The most basic and productive egies I have ever used was utilizing the MACD with Candle Price Action by just buy/selling based on MACD histogram. If you are SELL-Only trader, just sell if the MACD Histogram is under the 0 degree. The trader will then Close-out the order when the Histogram peaks.

    I have traded and believe this is an excellent, simple indior trading and shows how one indiors (MACD) could aid a traders in showing indicators of entry/exit.



  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    They say that you need to choose the right tool for the job. That applies to the usage of indiors, too. Before you can even do that though - you need to understand what that job is. The instrument can't let you know what the occupation is. I'd say that, then, someone who uses it correctly would not even actually need it. Just really a matter of convenience than anything else. The exception would be if you're using the exact indior as part of the EA.
    Nice post!

  4. #14
    I knew there could be commerce examples to prove that indiors work. Do not you see how subjective they are. I could for ANY price justify my transactions with indiors, all you have to do is tweak the configurations or time frames. Additionally
    , isn't reading candles about price action? (PS I concur with what you're saying). Craig thanks for you answer, I agree with some of what you're saying, like the usage of ATR for a measure of volatility. Guess what I wanted to communie is that indiors can be little more than guidelines at best. I don't utilize any and'm doing just fine ( better that if I used them ).

    Crucial point: Indiors are SUBJECTIVE

    utilizing price action is goal, this usually means that everyone is on precisely the exact same page, which is exactly what makes it useful. Eg// Horizontal Support and Resistance... you can not tweak it.

  5. #15
    Blacksun1... You are very funny. Thank you for that friend.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Using price action is goal, this means that everybody is on the same page, which is exactly what makes it useful. Eg// Apartment Support and Resistance... you can't tweak it.
    Sure, everybody looks at PA the same style, it's objective and you can't tweak it. LOL.

  7. #17
    Fxsurfer... you right!!! Guess I will begin trading just on a complete moon or if is high wave! Like a surfer dude!

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I knew there would be commerce examples to prove that indiors work. Do not you see how subjective they are. I really could for ANY price justify my transactions with indiors, all you have to do is tweak the settings or time frames.
    Considers the examples I have posted are examples I routinely use in real-time trading. I have taken longs and shorts , and I'm profitable. I do have a few different setups that I use too, but I routinely use MACD to affirm what other items are telling me. I use 2 MACD installations primarily, 3/9/1 and 9/21/1, and the two operate extremely well in the right settings. As always it goes to context, and that is the difference between experience and inexperience... the capability to quickly comprehend the context that the market supplies.

    If all you really do is backtest and over-optimize, yes you'll have problems. Take time and forward test these items, they are not arbitrarily chosen. Again, it's all in how you use them. The great thing about trading is that you're completely in charge of when to take transactions, the awful thing about trading... is that you are completely in charge of when to accept trades.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Using price action is goal, this means that everybody is on precisely the same page, and that's what makes it useful. Eg// Horizontal Support and Resistance... you can not tweak it.
    Sure you could tweak it. SR is just as subjective. There's no such thing as a support line, or a resistance line. There are zones, and how you draw them and what prices you've got inside them is entirely subjective. Furthermore the lines you would draw and the lines I would draw are going to differ, and the market may or may not honor either of them.

    If you go to some of the price action threads here, and take a look at some of the more powerful naked trading advoes you'll see that they utilize indiors in a variety of places. Much more so, those people who are strong proponents of price-action simply trading tend to focus across a wide range of markets, as the specific setups they exchange just come together once in a while. There's no issue with this, it's just that not everybody wants to get involved in stocks or futures, particularly with the type of leverage restrictions and margin requirements.

    Some of the most innovative traders around Earth, a few of whom I have had the pleasure of meeting and learning , utilize indiors in one form or another. That's not to say that you could not do the same without them, as you certainly can once you train your eye to see the patterns at price, but it does not hurt to have an objective metric which does not rely on the subjectivity of price interpretation if that is the way your brain functions.

    Trading is quite personal. What works for one person may not operate for another. You couldn't take my methods and replie them into profitability, simply like I could not yours. But to say that just your method functions is short-sighted.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I knew there would be commerce examples to prove that indiors work. Do not you see they're. I could for ANY price justify my trades with indiors, all you have to do is tweak the configurations or time frames. Also
    , is not reading candles about price action? (PS I concur with what you're saying). Craig thanks for you reply, I agree with some of what you're saying, like the use of ATR to get a measure of volatility. Guess what I wanted to communie is that indiors could be little more than tips at best. I don't use any...
    Well, yes, they're subjective, and they're subject to tweaking and backfitting data, but the point Craig and many others were making is that in the event that you realize how they operate, what they're based on, and can use them properly they can be a great aid. Using a stochastic will get you killed in a trending market, but it can be quite great in identifying points of exhaustion in ranging markets. And of course, you don't NEED you to try it, but the point is that it may aid you in visualising what is occurring, but you has to confirm to the best of the ability that what the indior is displaying is really valid for the market that they are trading.

  10. #20
    Thank you for your post Rabid. I find that your discussion enlightening, but I'd be ready to have a wager that it is not the indiors which you use that make you a good trader, its everything else. Plogy, MM, comprehending mass expectations . . You've clearly mastered these thing.
    I agree, trading is very personal.... I wish you well.

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